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Rich people simply think different

podcast Verum Lifestyle

the early stages of hard work and focus

are going to feel like agitation stress

and confusion because that's the

norepinephrine adrenaline system kicking

in none of us would expect to walk into

the gym and do our PR lift or you know a

performer go do something without

warming up the brain also needs to warm

up and start to hone in which circuits

0:22

are going to be active

0:23

and it's it's unreasonable for us to

0:25

think oh I've got an hour I'm going to

0:26

plop down and write beautifully for an

0:29

hour of my best work we need to accept

0:31

that there's a period of agitation and

0:32

stress that accompanies the dropping

0:34

into these highly concentrated States

0:36

now in terms of the reward that

Dopamine

0:38

accompanies the feeling that we're

0:41

funneling into that that groove of being

0:44

productive in in one regime like for you

0:46

writing this book

0:48

the dopamine system is really important

0:50

to understand so we've talked about

0:51

norepinephrine kind of gets you going

0:52

acetylcholine is the spotlight of

0:54

attention

0:55

the dopamine system is Mother Nature's

0:57

hardwired ancient system in all animals

1:00

including humans to put us on the right

1:03

path a lot of people talk about dopamine

1:05

as this thing that you get when you

1:07

publish the book or when you get the

1:09

book deal or when something wonderful

1:11

happens like your child's born and

1:13

that's true but dopamine's main role is

1:17

to be released anytime you achieve a

1:19

milestone or you think you're on the

1:21

right path

Duration Path Outcome

1:22

and when the dopamine system is Tethered

1:24

to a particular pattern of focus

1:26

remember duration path and outcome so

1:27

it's like okay sit down maybe you don't

1:29

get much text out but then the next day

1:31

you get 800 words of really solid text

1:33

and you feel good like I'm into this

1:35

what does that dopamine system do the

1:37

dopamine system takes the norepinephrine

1:40

which is normally rate limiting like at

1:42

some point

1:43

there's so much norepinephrine that you

1:45

quit dopamine can push that

1:47

noradrenaline back down that adrenaline

1:50

back down and give you more room more

1:52

space to do duration path and outcome

1:55

work highly focused work and I'm making

1:57

duration path outcomes synonymous with

1:58

highly focused work why would this

2:00

happen so let's think about an animal

2:02

let's think about a deer that wakes up

2:04

and is thirsty

2:06

and it's wandering out looking for water

2:08

that animal needs water it doesn't know

2:09

that it needs water it experiences

2:11

agitation the same way that a baby feels

2:14

agitation when it wants food but it

2:16

doesn't know it needs food it just feels

2:19

agitation and cries and the caretaker

2:20

comes hopefully that deer is now

2:24

foraging for something that it needs and

2:26

let's say it smells water because deer

2:29

can actually do that and arrives at a

2:30

stream and takes a sip of water there's

2:32

dopamine released then that puts it on a

2:35

path to maybe a larger Lake or something

2:36

of that sort or to be able to go cheap

2:38

food so when we are on the right path

2:41

and we hit a milestone dopamine is

2:44

released and it tends to tighten our

2:46

focus more for that activity this is why

2:49

drugs of abuse and why alcoholism and

2:53

some you know process addictions which

2:55

are behavioral addictions are so

2:56

dangerous because they a lot of those

2:59

drugs of abuse are dopamine so it

Addiction

3:01

becomes this cyclical Loop where there's

3:03

no other behavior that can evoke the

3:06

same level of release right in fact I

3:08

sort of Define addiction as a

3:10

progressive narrowing of the things that

3:12

bring you pleasure and I say that

3:14

because it really is the way that the

3:16

dopamine system works normally the

3:18

dopamine system is designed to be

3:19

generic it's designed to get me to do

3:21

lots of things social quality social

3:23

interactions you know work exercise all

3:26

those things

3:28

just like the stress system is designed

3:29

to get me out of bed in the morning a

3:31

cortisol pulse is what gets me out of

3:32

bed in the morning it's also what leads

3:34

me to or led me to pursue a career in

3:36

science out of fear initially and

3:38

eventually pleasure so the dopamine

3:40

system is Tethered to those states of

3:43

focus and it's what Mother Nature

3:45

designs so that neuroplasticity would

3:47

occur and you would want to continue

3:49

those behaviors again in the future that

3:52

deer needs to know and remember and

3:55

create a memory not just of where that

3:57

stream is but the process of oh when I

3:59

feel that agitation I'm going to get up

4:01

and go down this particular path right

4:03

and so people think of the dopamine

The dopamine system

4:06

system as this kind of like catch-all

4:07

for reward oh you get likes on Instagram

4:09

and it makes you feel good that's not

4:11

really how it works

4:13

and the important thing to understand is

4:15

when you start getting a convergence of

4:17

norepinephrine to that level of

4:19

agitation duration path outcome

4:21

acetylcholine and dopamine now you're

4:24

starting to wire in the behaviors that

4:25

make people really good at certain

4:28

things what this means is that for any

4:30

of us success in any Endeavor is very

4:33

closely related to how much Focus we can

4:35

bring to that endeavor and the reward

4:38

system you start to realize is entirely

4:40

internal no one's coming along and

4:42

cramming dopamine in your ear or

4:44

dripping it in your brain it's all

4:46

internal and this starts to bring us

4:48

into the kind of like discussion around

4:49

mindsets the discovery of growth mindset

4:52

was of these kids that actually really

4:54

enjoyed doing problem sets that they

4:56

knew they couldn't get right but for

4:58

them they would get this like dopamine

4:59

release from just focusing on the

5:01

problem they like doing puzzles they

5:03

couldn't get right it sounds crazy but

5:05

inevitably those kids are very good at

5:06

puzzles and very good at math and these

5:08

kinds of things so growth mindset is I

Growth mindset

5:11

believe it was sort of a neuroscience

5:14

lens on growth mindset would be that the

5:16

agitation and stress that you feel at

5:18

the beginning of something and when

5:19

you're trying to lean into it and you

5:21

can't focus is just a recognized gate

5:23

you have to pass that through that gate

5:24

to get to the focus component and then

5:27

if you can reward the effort process you

5:29

really start to feel Joy and low levels

5:33

of of excitement in the effort process

5:35

that's that buffering of adrenaline

5:38

that's that feeling like yes I've got a

5:40

lot of adrenaline in my system but I'm

5:41

on the right path it feels good to walk

5:44

up this hill so to speak and when you

5:47

start to bring those neural circuits

5:49

together

5:50

you really start to create a whole set

5:52

of circuits that are designed to be

5:54

exported to any Behavior you want

5:57

so if it's writing a book great if it's

6:00

podcasting great if it's building a

6:02

business great if it's if it's you know

6:04

building a terrific relationship great

6:06

then the circuits that Mother Nature's

6:07

design are incredibly generic so that we

6:10

could adapt to whatever it is that we

6:12

need to do and I think the

6:13

misunderstanding around how these

6:15

circuits work has led to this idea that

6:17

there's some secret entry point maybe

6:19

marked flow on the door and there's a

6:21

trampoline up to that door and you just

6:23

open that door and you're going to be in

6:25

it right and nothing could be further

6:27

from the truth and anyone who's done

6:28

well in any career or athletic Pursuit

6:31

knows this but unfortunately there's a

Selfreward

6:35

kind of obsession with the idea that

6:36

it's all supposed to feel good and it

6:38

does feel good but there's a whole

6:39

staircase in which it feels kind of

6:41

lousy the idea that you can self-reward

6:44

the effort process is extremely powerful

6:47

because what it means is that if you can

6:49

recognize agitation stress and confusion

6:52

as an entry point to where you

6:53

eventually want to go I do think that

6:55

just that even just mental recognition

6:57

can allow people to pass through it more

6:59

easily they think they're doing

7:00

something wrong and then rewarding

7:02

yourself when you achieve any Milestone

7:04

like you know running to a particular

7:06

location if you're trying to run a long

7:08

distance and then registering that as a

7:11

partial win

7:12

what we know is that the dopamine that's

7:14

released in response to that suppresses

7:17

the total amount of adrenaline and gives

7:19

you more room more time more energy to

7:23

run in the running example and this is

7:26

anchored in a real scientific result so

7:28

last year there was a paper published

7:30

that essentially was asking why any

7:32

human or animal quits at any Behavior

7:35

talking about running or we're talking

7:37

about long bouts of work the question is

7:40

why do we quit like what is that it

7:42

turns out that every time we exert

7:44

effort a certain amount of noradrenaline

7:46

in the brain is released and there's a

7:49

sort of a counter in the brain stem and

7:52

at some point enough noradrenaline is

7:53

released and it shuts down cognitive

7:56

control deliberate control over the

7:58

motor circuitry and we quit the thing

The power of dopamine

8:00

that can restore those levels or can

8:02

sort of reset those levels lower and

8:03

give us more gas more mileage is

8:06

dopamine and it makes perfect sense

8:07

because our species had to move against

8:10

very challenging things in in nature and

8:13

in in terms of in culture at every stage

8:17

of our Evolution including now a good

8:19

example would be if you're really

8:21

slogging it out and things are miserable

8:23

just think like the worst family

8:25

vacation everything's a disaster or a

8:28

very hard physical event

8:30

and someone cracks a joke

8:32

you're almost immediately feel a sense

8:34

of relief you see this in the team that

8:36

wins the Super Bowl both teams slogged

8:38

it out you have to believe they were

8:40

both at Max effort the entire game look

8:42

at the team that wins they have extra

8:44

energy they're jumping all over the

8:45

place so it can't be physical energy it

8:48

can't be glycogen related it's not

8:49

Ketone related it's nothing in the body

8:52

in that sense it's dopamine's ability to

8:55

take that level of norepinephrine and

8:56

smack it back down and so we can learn

9:00

this right I mean I think this is where

9:02

there's real power like in your story

9:04

um or the story that I'm familiar with

9:05

from your book like the the ability to

9:08

push through those pain points is

9:11

something that we really can export to

9:13

other aspects of life because it's the

9:15

same neurochemicals that are involved so

9:17

when you get to a particular location or

9:19

maybe you're I recall

9:21

um you know a portion where you're just

9:22

you're feeling lousy you know you're

9:24

injured or you feel like you're hurt and

9:26

you can reframe it mentally

9:28

and think I'm actually still on the

9:30

ladder I'm still holding on to a rung I

9:32

know at least that much I'm still

9:34

breathing I know that much and the lift

9:36

that we get is not some psychological

9:38

pump up it's a neurochemical thing it's

9:41

dopamine suppressing norepinephrine and

9:43

saying you're on the right path you can

9:45

keep going it's a permission to keep

9:47

going and we grant that permission to

9:50

ourselves no one grants that permission

9:51

to us I think one of the other kind of

9:54

misconceptions that we want to dissolve

9:57

is this idea that external rewards can

10:00

actually Propel us down long past of of

10:04

success and high performance they can't

10:05

I have a friend from the SEAL Teams and

10:07

somebody asked us recently we were given

10:09

a talk um and somebody said how can I

10:11

make sure that I continue to self-reward

10:13

and I'm not driven by these external

10:16

rewards how can I continue to have that

10:18

drive and uh his answer was very good he

10:21

said give away all the external rewards

10:24

there's a famous Stanford study done at

10:26

Bing nursery school did this study where

10:28

they looked at kids that like to playing

10:30

during their recess it's all recess in

10:32

nursery school but they're drawing and

10:35

they took the kids that really like to

10:37

draw

10:38

and they started giving them little gold

10:40

stars on their drawings and then they

10:43

liked the gold stars for a kid that's an

10:45

extrinsic reward and then they stopped

10:46

doing that and the kids stopped drawing

10:49

they just they they associate the good

10:51

feeling of doing it with the external

10:53

rewards and we have to be very cautious

10:55

about how much of our internal dopamine

10:57

we attach to external rewards if we want

11:00

to continue to grow and pursue and focus

11:03

and work hard if you just want to get to

11:05

some place and cash in

11:07

then fine but most people find

11:09

themselves in a pretty miserable place

11:11

because their dopamine was so attached

11:13

to external rewards they need more and

11:15

more one of the most powerful things

11:16

that any person can do is to learn to

11:19

control

11:20

this idea of duration path and outcome

11:22

and attach an internal sense of reward

11:25

just that you're doing well to reward

11:26

yourself mentally just say I'm doing

11:28

well I'm actually on the right path

11:30

to do that inside of the

11:33

demands that come from the external

11:35

world the more often that we can

11:37

self-reward some aspect of the process

11:40

provided it's in the right direction of

11:42

what we're trying to achieve

11:44

the more energy we're going to have for

11:45

that the more Focus we're going to have

11:47

for that and remember that nor the

11:48

reason I say energy is that limiting

11:51

amount of noradrenaline is constantly

11:53

being kept at Bay you're literally

11:55

buffering the quit response and so when

11:58

people start realizing that

12:00

if they set the goals inside of the

12:03

larger goal and self-reward each one of

12:05

those they essentially have an infinite

12:07

amount of energy to pursue

12:09

those goals they have an infinite amount

12:11

of focus to pursue those goals